Date: Wed, 11 Dec 96 14:58:32 GMT
From: Aouali
To: AGM mailing list
Subject: About Mark,


I want to put what it worth it about what I think you are thinking about
Mark.  Hey, you know me, I am direct and assertive, it helps corrects
problems and to fix things sometimes. 

Since I have been in AGM, I have seen people coming to AGM, and not
knowing the rules before hand and they just react as they used to do in 
other  newsgroups (normal, as we don't expect people to join AGM and 
having the  spirit of AGM in the first seconds, we are not that evil are we?), 
but we  were more tollerante to accept them after  explaining to them 
what's  right and what's wrong. And I have a very vivid memory of 
someone who used  to reply very nastly (because she/he didn't know),  
and not to flammers  (there were none at that time) but to us AGMers, 
and after a little while  she/he appologized and said that she/he 
understood more AGM after thinking about it, and now is a very 
respectable AGMer (I wont cite any names here). 

An other example is of someone who have been accused just like you 
are  accusing Mark, or being not AGMish, weird and bizarre, not only on 
AGM but  also on COLD. Fortunately I wont the argument that she/he is 
not what  they thought she/he is and is now sitting with us and sharing 
with us our  little corner of AGM, and I for one give her/him all my respects 
(I wont  cite names here either)...

Those were just 2 obvious examples amongs dozens I have in my 
memory store.....

What's the point? The point is that you are judging Mark without any
evidences.  I have no idea from where/how/where you have this feeling
about Mark.  Mark is net-unexperienced (and God, I have met so many 
during my last 6 years on the internet), so we should help him and advise 
him how to react/response/etc... The way he replyed to those nasty people 
(either in our AGM or other groups) doesn't justify your reaction towards 
him. I have heard so many AGMers in real life saying worst than that (it 
doesn't have to be a follow-up on the internet you know), though I consider 
Mark's replys as defensive replys from someone who didn't know what to 
do and whose net-unexperience led him to reply as he used to do maybe 
in real life?  (but can you deny that you can be nasty too in replying to 
people in real life sometimes? have you heard of 'out-of-control' sometimes?).

What's noticable too is that Mark learnt from this experience (shouldn't
we encourage this?) and now he is more reserved in replying like before
(it's an improuvment, non?). So why are you still not accepting him?? 

I recall (not that far away) that you were ready to accept DV if he stoped
his stupidity and posted nicely. And the comparison is big here as DV is
500% worst than Mark. So why are you not accepting Mark now? I fail to
understand this. 

If I ask now each of you "Who have a problem with Mark?", I am sure no one
would rise the hand because you have no problem with Mark, you just maybe
want to have a problem with Mark, subconsciously to justify your point?.
If I ask you again "If you want Mark to be from us, would you be able to
discuss what you see as a problem WITH him via email so that you can
correct the fault?" Maybe you will learn lots of things about Mark you
didn't know (or you don't want to know?).

Talking is the best solutions for any situations and I have always encouraged 
that. When I felt that there was a problem with R (remember him?) I 
didn't wait, I directly emailed him to discuss the problem with him, because
he was the concerned subject. Well you know now the end of R's saga.
I don't feel any problem wit Mark, and thus I can't email him to discuss
with him a false problem. So anyone of you who doesn't feel comfortable with 
Mark but doesn't know why, I suggest you email him direclty (he wont bite
you don't worry), and tell him what you feel, and why you feel it. 
Better than keeping on speculating on Mark's tribulations (sort of walking 
in the dark), at least let him defend himself, and hear what he has to say, 
as he has no idea that some of you are suspecting him. I don't 
like this situation and never wish it happen to me. I do hope any one 
suspecting anything of my behavior, have the  courrage to tell me about it 
directly, rather than I hear it from someone else or feel it. Talking to the 
*concerned* person always correct problems and kill misunderstanding and 
you should have learnt this by now.

So, becareful, you are maybe judging someone innocent, with no evidence or 
prouves. And I would not like AGM spirit to start being judgemental.

Once again, I am not defending Mark, I am just trying to be fair because I 
was always fair and will always be in my life and I don't want to change. 
And if I understand why some of you have reserves about Mark, what I
don't understand is how you are dealing with this situation.

Have all a sip of cup of cafe (or tea for some), relax, and let's go 
back to help people on AGM who ever asked for it, and Mark asked for it.

Gee, I think I have spent more than my 2 cents (why 2 cents btw?)

Aouali...lili


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