Community: Ahuva's paper


CHAPTER FIVE
PUTTING OUT THE FIRE
How AGMers Fought Back

The basic theory regarding the flamers can be seen in a mail by Robfitz:

"About the only thought I have about flamers is that ANY response is the wrong response. To reply, flame, argue, or even discuss the flames is to encourage the flamers. As they are doing this to get a response."(Personal communication via E-mail).

Flamers are generally thought to be seeking attention. The way to deal with them is to deny them any kind of attention, i.e. totally ignore them, therefore denying them the satisfaction of seeing how bothered AGMers actually were.

The strategy of ignoring flames, is problematic if people want to, or need to, discuss the flamers. Most discussions about AGM, happen in AGM. In the case of the flame war there was a very unique case where something substantial was occuring in the newsgroup, but because of the accepted rule of ignoring flames and flamers, AGMers could not discuss it via the newsgroup. There were the discussions on COLD, the talker frequented by AGMers, but more was needed. Not all AGMers have access to COLD, and some choose not to use the talker. Many people only read the newsgroup, and therefore are aware only of what is posted in the usual way.

Out of this need an E-mail mailing list was created, including most of the people known to AGMers to be part of the AGM group. This gave AGMers an additional sense of unity, and a place to discuss their feeling about the war, and to gather strength from the mutual effort.

This mass mailing list was originated by Phil Plasma and discussed the flame war and what to do about it. Phil's original mail suggested bombarding the flamers with "hugs", mails sending them hugs. This suggestion was not accepted by most people who felt that the best strategy was still to simply ignore the flamers. SDL thought that all posts referring to the flames would go straight to the flamers egos, including posts about how bad AGMers felt:

"Tom Beam has made it clear he will continue to post here because he is still getting responses from people - any attention will do for his ego. The same applies to the others - posts from any of us talking about how awful the crossposting is and making any mention of their disruption will only feed their egos." (Personal communication via E-mail)

Tina thought the flamers might get bored if they didn't receive responses:

"I agree with those suggesting totally ignoring the crossposters and flamers. They appear to me to be rather immature and probably see this as the only way to attract attention. So it's best not to reply in any way so they get bored because they don't get what they want." (Personal communication via E-mail)

Juice was quite willing to go nine rounds with the flamers, but also thought it would only encourage them, and wouldn't make the flames stop:

wow
dont think i've ever had this many emails in my mail box before...
we ... have a problem
i dont think they've actually had a go at me personally.... else i'd have 
got in sarcastic mode....
seeing as i've got a nice 4 meg freenet account, no way for them to do 
owt really either....
but ...
in some ways... i've been reading what they wrote, and they are very sad 
and lonely people....
cant suggest anything.. i'd quite happily have a slanging match with 
them.... i know i'd win.... i dont need to swear to be *mildly* insulting
and with life at its usual pace itd be nice and theraputic as well...
but ... it'd prob just encourage them.... and it wont change what they 
doing to agm...
fighting fire with fire in this case'll just make the flames a bit hotter...
i dont intend for my friends to get burned
not much we can do... less we dig out thier providers and get them kicked 
off the net permanently
so... for now... i aint got any suggestions....
i'll lead the backlash ... but i cant see it doing anything useful...
 (Personal communication via E-mail)

One practical suggestion, was the use of filters. Filters are computer programs that can be used to block all posts from specific addresses, or all posts with specific authors or subjects. Gathel described filters and explained their use:
"I just thought I would put my 2 cents worth in here. I have found the recent crossposting and flaming to be rather stress producing (something my work does well enough, Thank you). Therefore I finally broke down and purchased the commercial version of Free Agent. This newsreader has an easy to use filtering system (pretty much just one right click and two left clicks) and it works quite well. The kill filters can be permanent or for a limited time, so that you can banish a person from your computer for a finite time period if you wish.
I didn't realize how well it was working until I attempted to figure out who this Gonzalez character is (I thought it was Browne on his new account but I guess it was Spoon). Since I have Agent's kill filters against many in Alt.nuke I used Netscape to read the news. I was surprised to see how much junk these people have been posting to AGM, I have been missing over 90% of it. My point here is that the kill filters really do work and they have made the problem pretty much disappear for me." (Personal communication via E-mail)

The flame war was started by a newbie, Mark, and the flamers were also new to the group. Because of these facts, AGMers became wary of new posters. Greeting newbies warmly, is the usually practice in AGM, and is one of the things that AGM prides itself on. The wariness of newbies, caused by the flame war, bothered the AGMers. This was also discussed in the list. Both SDL and Tina thought that newbies should continue to be greeted warmly, unless they prove to be flamers, as did others.

SDL said that her "policy atm is to continue to assume new posters are bona fide unless the headers indicate they are crossposting or have posted from addresses used by the flamers so far. Until somebody proves themselves 'unworthy' of the AGMer nickname I'll continue to post welcome messages and email them if they seem to be getting caught up on the flame wars." (Personal communication via E-mail)

Tina agreed with this:
"I also agree with Sue that we should not ignore newbies and get into danger of becoming elitist and turning away nice folks who belong to this group. Once ppl turn out to be a hoax and are intent on harming us we can ignore them later :-)" (Personal communication via E-mail)

Linda encouraged AGMers to continue to greet newbies warmly:
"It's really good to see how determined all of you are that these ppl not destroy what we have going for us. I must confess that I'm being pretty cautious about welcoming newbies now, but I admire Spud's attitude of not letting these jerks affect how she treats agmers--even new ones--innocent until proven otherwise. Good for you, Sue!

And so, courage and patience to us all--we'll triumph in the end, I'm sure of it!"(Personal communication via E-mail)

Gathel was troubled by Mark's actions, and had mixed feelings towards him:
"The policy of ignoring these people is a very good one and Agent's kill filters make this very easy to do. Unfortunately there are always going to be people who don't follow this rule, such as Mark, who has continued to address the flamers directly, even after repeated requests not to (I have written to him twice, first kindly and then sternly, and I know others have as well). I really don't know what to do about such people, but a person who repeatedly ignores our rules does not have a place here, even when their offense is in defending themselves. I hate to see a person like Mark driven away from our group, but in large part he is responsible for this entire affair. For the moment Mark has not earned a spot in my kill filters and I would be reluctant to place him there." (Personal communication via E-mail).

Aouali was quite strong in her emphasis that Mark should not be ostracised for his part in inciting the flame war. She claimed that there were other cases where newbies, who weren't aware of the rules of AGM, behaved unappropriately, according to AGM standards. Some of them, later on, became permanent participaters in AGM, after AGMers explained to them the policies of AGM. (Personal communication via E-mail)

Phil summarized the discussions on the mailing list:

"As for the replies that have come to pass so far, I think that likely the ignore strategy is what wins the most votes, and so I shall continue to do just that, and hope with all of my heart that 100% of AGM'ers can also ignore..." (Personal communication via E-mail)

Fred, and AGMer with a lot of technical knowledge, wrote a lengthy mail summarizing what was known about the flamers, and also summarized basic strategies for dealing with the flame posts. He reiterated the policy of totally ignoring flamers. He listed the nicknames the flamers uses, so that AGMers could identify their posts, and suggested using filters and kill files. He suggested checking the mail paths post used, to identify fake posters, and suggests forwarding those posts to postmasters. Fred also suggested helping newbies, and explaining AGM rules, so that they wouldn't respond to the flames, like Mark did. Fred also suggested moving to a new newsgroup, till the flame war calmed down.(Personal communication via E-mail)

Fred's final suggestion, moving to a new newsgroup till the flame war abated, was not accepted. Both Ahuva and Janyce wrote mail against this idea, claiming that leaving AGM would be a victory to the flamers. Linda was also against this:
"I think that if we moved to another newsgroup, it would merely be a challenge for them to find us, and they would. I believe they know that we wouldn't just fade away--we're too dedicated." (Personal communication via E-mail)

Following these discussions, the general consensus was not to leave AGM, but to be extremely careful not to respond to the flames in any way, in the hope that the flamers would eventually go away.


Go back to....

Beginning
Introduction
Cha. 1: An introduction to ALT.GOOD.MORNING
Cha. 2: The Philosophy of AGM
Cha. 3: "No flaming" rule on AGM
Cha. 4: Firefighting - a description of the flamers

Continue to...

Cha. 6: Soothing the burn - Self healing on AGM
Concluding remarks
AGM's faq
Conventions for citing E-messages



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